Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: So we've got three kids. Our oldest is Peyton, who is out of the house.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Out of the house.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: You've met her on one of the previous episodes of the podcast.
[00:00:09] Speaker C: I know her well.
But today, we want to welcome my namesake, Jimmy, who will be 18 this fall.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: We are so excited to finally have him on the podcast. This is going to be, I think, the first of two episodes with Jimmy. And we're going to talk about kind of where you've been on this episode, and then on the next episode, we'll talk about where you are at and then where you want to go. So we're going to kind of break it up a little bit and.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: Yeah, let's go ahead and get into it.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:01:02] Speaker C: Welcome to modern mixtape navigating parenthood. I'm your host, Jim, along with my wife, Jenny. We're just two parents born in the seventies, raised in the eighties, love music from the nineties, and raising kids in the two thousands. And frankly, just trying to figure it all out. Let's dive into the mixtape of modern parenting. This is modern mixtape. Listen wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on all socials.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Everybody's got a story, and this one is yours.
But I think your story is really pretty amazing and kind of unique, you know? And we've talked a lot about the transition.
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Why do I just want to do the intro to the jerk right now?
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Stop.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Go ahead.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: But no, I think we've talked about that. For a lot of kids, the transition from middle school to high school is challenging. But I think yours is unique because that was during COVID So you were at home for Covid for 8th grade, right?
[00:02:05] Speaker B: I was at home for. Yeah, for 8th grade, and then I briefly. I was briefly at home for 8th grade, and then I headed back into in person school. And that is where I guess. I guess this kind of starts.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Cause freshman year, you were all in person.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yes, I was.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: Yeah, that would make sense.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: That makes total sense. Cause 8th grade to 12th grade, it's 2024. So. Yeah.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah. So we ended. We ended 8th grade with COVID and then start of 9th grade, Washington. Hey, some people are going back to school. Some people are not. And I think. I think we did the beginning of 9th grade and then started sending. I think after it was.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: I think it was 7th to 8th grade.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right.
[00:02:58] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: 9Th was all in person.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Yes. 9th was all in person.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: But so once 8th grade started, I had maybe, I believe it was a month about at home. And that's where some of my issues began is we were doing online school, and that was the beginning of just that kind of program. And so I kind of figured. I really just did not. I did not stay focused. I skipped Zoom meetings. I was just online playing games, doing whatever. Well, basically.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Well, let's back up a little bit, just so everybody knows.
[00:03:37] Speaker C: Hold on. So this is actually really interesting because a lot of people. There's a lot of stuff being said out there that, you know, as soon as Covid happened, it changed the way these kids think.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah. But to back up, you talked about you kind of lost focus. To be fair, we've mentioned in previous podcasts that we have two kids on the autism spectrum. You like your older sister also on the autism spectrum.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: But you also have adhd. So was it hard or harder or just what was that experience like for you, having to just go 100% online, managing yourself with COVID Cause that's where you say you kind of lost focus. I mean, you were really kind of teaching yourself. I hate to say it.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Frankly, I did not really manage it. I didn't. I skipped a lot of Zoom meetings. I would go on, just, you know, go play games, just surf the web, do basically whatever, because there was basically, there was no monitoring.
Yeah.
[00:04:45] Speaker C: You had no structure.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I did not have any structure. And then I believe it was that YouTube discovered that I was doing all this stuff and they.
You guys sent me to in person school. So that even despite when there was.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: An option, we sent him back.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Yeah. You were the first of our kids to go back to in person school. Cause I think we were desperate for some more structure. So you went back before your sisters?
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Accountability. We needed accountability.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Despite that, returning to regular in person school, I did nothing get. I did not use that structure to my advantage. I didn't. I just continued to play games, surf the web, just do what I was doing, and I just. And at some point, it got to the point where close to the end of 8th grade year, it was getting so bad that my grades were getting extremely low and they were going to, I guess, impact my.
I guess, my graduation from middle school. And so, fortunately, I have two amazing parents that were like, okay, we've got to get back on this. We're still not really happy with what you did, but let's get this back on track.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Well, and I have to say, I think there was an amazing assistant principal, 8th grade, who kind of saw what was going on and did take your computer away and put you in, like, that study hall in 8th grade, remember? Because they. That was the first time, I think, you got in trouble for your computer usage. And it was kind of, I think, a little wake up call to you because you pulled it off in 8th grade and you graduated, which was great.
[00:06:36] Speaker C: Will that be iss?
[00:06:37] Speaker A: I think that was your first iss, which was in school suspension. But I think as parents, to be honest, we did nothing. We were not fully aware. And Jimmy's incredibly smart, and we were not fully aware of what he was doing on his computer. Cause it was a school issued laptop, and so we weren't fully aware. But he graduated 8th grade. But we did realize with his transition plan to high school, we're like, hey, there needs to be some computer monitoring. So fast forward after 8th grade, we got you to freshman year, and we all. We were all on board, because I will say you were really good at telling us, like, dude, I'm committed. This is great. I'm in high school.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that kind of really, unfortunately, just completely fell apart after the first month, September, October, stuff started just really dropping, because not only did I have, like, the computer at home, I could also. I also had it, like, in my backpack, so I was able to use it, or I was just. At some point, it will use it, like, oh, like, during the night, like, just, like, free range. And that got to the point where I had had everything taken away, except with the exception of, I believe, my Xbox. And then I. And this was getting just so bad. My grades were terrible. My attitude was terrible. I was staying up all night, multiple times, and it was really not. It was a terrible pattern for me to be in.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And this was all, like, by November, and we had reached out to the school, and literally, we watched Jimmy go from. Jimmy is one of the most kindhearted, just wonderful. He's just got this amazing spirit, and he is so kind. And we literally watched just an overnight shift, and we couldn't figure out what it was. But all of a sudden, now we know he was addicted to electronics, because he was up, as Jimmy said, up all night. And it was all through his school issued laptop. And this was, like, by December, he was failing classes.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:05] Speaker C: PSA parents, if you have a kid who diligently gets up early, if he's an early riser or she's an early riser, and they stop getting up, check their nighttime habits.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So we talked to the school. We're like, you gotta get on track. Jimmy was like, I'm committed. And by this point, we had taken away the Xbox in his room. We had I think, locked down your phone. We had done everything, I think, we could as parents, and then by March.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Mm hmm. That was freshman year.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: It was freshman year. He had stolen his sister's laptop. His sister's laptop.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: I believe he was.
Yeah. My sister's school issued Chromebook.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: And that was. I. I believe that was it for March. And then it kind of went. It went down in. I believe it was April or May. It was second to last day of school or the last day of school. So the second to last day of school, it was. I believe that actually was when I was caught with my sister's school issued chromebook.
And then that same. Or the next day, I made the terrible decision to. So she was being punished for something. I can't entirely remember right now, but she had this bin of things that was sitting on the counter downstairs, and in. That was also her phone, which I knew the password to because it's her birthday, which is.
We're definitely not disclosing that, but don't worry, it's changed. Yeah, I knew the password to it, and so I was like, oh, I can probably take this. And they won't know because I didn't think that they were going to. They were getting ready to give it back to her, which they were. And I was sitting up, and I. I distinctly do remember seeing or popping up, like, you know, consistently to check if that there was nobody there. I can. I remember popping up and seeing both of you looking into that bin. And I was mortified. I was like, I'm literally well done.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: Let's rewind here just a minute. Yeah, there's something everybody overlooked here.
Your sister had to check her grades cause she was low in one of her classes. And we asked her, why don't you get on your laptop and figure out where it was? Where it is?
[00:12:01] Speaker A: And so she thought maybe she left her laptop on the box.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: She went insane for three days.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: And then I called the school, and they tracked the IP address, and her laptop was at our house. To our house. And we searched Jimmy's room and found it in her room. And so that was the first interaction with Jimmy and law enforcement. And we sat down and talked with the school resource officer, who was amazing. And that's when Jimmy told us he would not tell us in front of the officer, but he told me when we got home, and I thought for sure that was going to be it. And then he stole the phone. And so we made the really difficult decision to call the sheriff on our own son, because we were desperate to stop the behavior that was going on. I mean, we did not know what to do because he was lost in the sea of electronics addiction, and we didn't know really what it was, but he was.
He was gone. He wasn't the son we knew. And so he had also vandalized a door. And so at that point, we had some leverage because he had a screen, and a screen. He had damaged our home. So we had a little bit of leverage. But by this point, behind the scenes, we knew that Jimmy could not continue on at the public school. And so we had started looking for other options for Jimmy to go to, to kind of sort himself out over the summer. And I will tell you, Jim gave a PSa.
If you're in this desperate of a situation as a parent, please do your resources or research, because there are some not great options where you can send your children to that look on the surface, like, great places. Like, they're gonna do this stuff. They're gonna get your children straight.
They are not.
We were incredibly fortunate that we got connected with outward bound. And the summer prior, Jimmy had done a wilderness camp up in the Idaho.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Montana, Idaho, Montana.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Kind of area. And we realized that Jimmy really did wonderful out in the wilderness. And so we talked to his neurologist, his therapist, about the outward bound program. And outward bound has a lot of different programs, and we chose the Voyager program because parents also had to be involved. He couldn't go without parent involved involvement. So it wasn't just Jimmy doing the work. It was also us committing to it.
But it was not easy. It was going to be 28 days out in the boundary waters.
We would not get to talk to him for 28 days.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: For the record, he was. When she says boundary Waters, it's the Minnesota boundary Waters. Canada boundary Waters. We actually had to fly there and drop him off, and he was in disbelief until we left him at an airport terminal after getting to Minnesota. And we.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: It was either he was going to be in jail or. And think about and figure it out that way, or he was going to accept this opportunity. And we knew that this was the right thing because we also knew there were things we had to change as parents. But I think outward Bound was a pivotal moment for all three of us and our relationship and Jimmy moving forward. I mean, so I don't know what your thoughts were when we're like, we're sending you to outward bound. Cause I think at the first moment, you were still a little angry at us.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, outward bound has absolutely changed my life.
I will admit that.
At like, you know, in the future. From that point, I have partially dried, partially drifted away from some, some from the values and outward bound, and likely get to that later.
But it's made a massive impact on my life. It was 28 days out in the remote wilderness.
No, no contact with my family. And it, I mean, first, it really made, it really made me realize how much I love and appreciate my family in that I didn't really like, I didn't appreciate them until they weren't there. They weren't with me. And it was really difficult.
Probably the most difficult. I mean, actually, I could just go into detail about this. There were things we had to do to carry canoes over portages, which are basically a trail on land from a body of water to another body of water. Some of them took, one of them angle worm Portage took up. I believe it was 10 hours. We wanted to get it done in two, and it took 10 hours. And we were sitting out there in the. Honestly, almost in the freezing cold at one in the morning, while it's raining, trying to get our tents up. And we still had to do this little program where we had, or we had to still to do part of our program, which is we have to do like, a very short, like, night, nighttime type of routine.
And it wasn't anything like that. It was just kind of a reflect on it. Um, I'm trying to remember more details, but I don't want to, like, take time to take more time to think. But a small nighttime routine, um, that we all had to do together. Uh, and it was like, just let us go to bed. Um, we had, I mean, we had tons of just. We had a lot of hard points. I had, uh, for the first, I think, like, three or four days, I did nothing. Put in as much effort.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: And I had one guy who. So there's a system, or there's a small system in in this program that we learned about. There's something called a c four. C F O r. It's concern.
Feeling, which is. Or concern. You address your concern with someone feeling how you're feeling about that. Ownership, or ownership. You take ownership for something you may. You could have done better. And then request, which is your request for the person, and then they have to repeat that.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: Hold on, there's two r's. Wasn't there reflection and request, or.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Yes, request, and then there's the reflection afterwards, which the person who is getting. Who is receiving the c four will repeat, will reflect on, not repeat, because that's kind of monotonous. But reflect on what the giver told them.
They. And they ask, do you accept this or do you feel heard?
[00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: And you can say yes or no. It's it.
[00:19:46] Speaker C: So what happens if you say no?
Then they go through it again.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: No, you don't go through it again. But I believe you can also address it again or again in a. In another series called a vomp.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Remember, I think c four is one way and a vomp is a yemenite two way in a group. Correct.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Mm hmm. And then there's Vomp, which is for more group based concerns, because c four s were more just like one person to one person.
[00:20:17] Speaker C: Right. Like, hey, I have this issue with you. This is my problem with you. This is what you're not doing.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Let him in. Explain the vomp.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: Okay.
That's the c four.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: Yeah. The vomp is more group wide, and we would just issue these c four s and.
And vomps at one of. At one of our routines. So the vomp is you first voice. So it's basically a group thing. You're addressing a majority of the group. There needs to be a.
There needs to be a person.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: A facilitator.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yes, a facilitator.
They are looking to have everyone say, so v is voice. So you say what you're feeling, your thoughts on the. On. On the topic, and if you don't have anything to say, so it continues around in a circle. So, say you do it, and then somebody else says something, and then somebody else says something goes all around, and then if anybody has anything else to say, then you go around again, and it goes until everyone has said what they need, what they would like to say. And then they go into, oh, which was ownership, which you take ownership for something you could have done to change the situation or make it better. And then there's m, which is empathy, which is you empathize with other people about the issues that you had and kind of show that.
You show empathy. You show that, hey, I understand you're part of this, and then we kind of move on to plan, which is they plan for the whole group to move forward. Yeah, they're both very effective. But I received a c four on around day four that said I wasn't doing enough, and I was trying, and I was really kind of trailing behind.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: How did that make you feel?
[00:22:18] Speaker B: It. It really did.
I think it was. The thing that really changed me, that truly, truly changed me is because up to that point, I mean, I'm just remembering the magnitude of this is that up to that point, I didn't care. I was going to try to stay behind in the group, not do as little as I could and just get through it and get home instead of being sitting in a jail cell or.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Sitting in a juvie cell, because, to be fair, the way outward bound works is we have no communication with Jimmy. And we had told Jimmy that he needed to stay this out, and if he did not, and we actually had the sheriff at our house explain to him kind of what the consequences were, that if he did not complete the program, we would proceed ahead. And it was really difficult, but we also knew he was really capable of doing it. And it was an amazing opportunity. It was going to be incredibly difficult, but we knew he had it in him to do it. He just.
He had to find it within himself and kind of have some of that self reflection. And I. And I know that that was. He had to get through that, like, turning point that. And it was nice that it was one of his peers, and that's one of the hallmarks of the outward bound group, is that he's in a peer group. It was one of his peers who issued that c four and held him accountable. And held him accountable. It wasn't us, because clearly at that point, he didn't respect us yet, and that was something that came later in the program. But it was one of your peers who held you accountable.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I had. I was issued ac four, and he told me, hey, it looks like you're not trying. You're not really being a team player. You're not helping. You're trying to, you know, stay back. And it really was kind of.
I really do credit him with really being one of the most pivotal turnarounds in my life. Just, I mean, telling someone something, I mean, like, I would say just in general, tell someone, like, how you feel about something, it could really change the way that they do, that they do things.
And it kind of set in for me that you're good. Hey, man, you're gonna be here. You're gonna be in this program the whole way, and the only way you're gonna be making any change or you're going to be doing well is if you put in the effort. And I, from that point on was, they said, most of my peers said I was probably one of the chillest guys there. I was one of the hardest workers. I did everything I could in my power to help the group and contribute, and that was something that really, really changed me. We all graduated with. All right, so there's a certain graduation ceremony in front of our parents. And the. One of the turnpoints of it was, you have to. So there's the graduation, and then there's also the graduation with excellence.
You would write. So there's also a program or part of it called solo, where you take two or three days, and they'd not entirely leave you. We went to a small, like, pond. River or.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: No, you'd be by yourself.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yes, a small lake. And then they separated us out, and it was the time to reflect on everything. And I remember just sitting on the edge of the land and just kind of, like, crying. Everyone heard it at that point, and it was really difficult. It was really difficult to be completely isolated and not have anybody to talk to. And so during this, they also had us do write letters of recommendation for reasons why so and so should graduate. And I believe also graduate with excellence. Graduation with excellence was something that you chose. So if you really feel that you deserved that pinnae, then you would put it on, or you would. So they had the pins, and you'd hold out your. Or you would have your hands either closed in a fist behind you, or you'd have them open. And I had a good two minutes where I was just sitting there figuring out, do I really deserve it? Do I really deserve this? And first part of me thought of the negative thought of the things that I could have done better, things I did wrong. And then the. And then the other part of that thought process was, look at all you've done to contribute, and you've made it through all this. And I decided to put my hand or open my hands and get the pin.
But outward bound was a really, really pivotal part of my life.
It really put some nice.
It put values into my life, and it also added both of the parents to it, and it made it a better. It made there a better communication system.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: Because I think part of it, we got there two days before Jimmy came back to what's called, like, base camp.
[00:27:59] Speaker C: And, yeah, we got there. I think it was Thursday night, and then we had Friday and Saturday, where we did all the things we had.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: To do, workshops, but.
[00:28:10] Speaker C: And we also got to hang out with the same people that was in his group.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: So we met other parents, and, I mean, there was feedback for us, and I think we.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: I think learning that some of the parents weren't very vulnerable, and then by, like, day two of the parents getting together, everybody's vulnerable. Everybody showed their vulnerability.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Well, I think that. But also learning, like the c four and the vomp, those are still communication techniques we use as a family, we had Jimmy come back and teach the family, and instead of things spiraling out of hand, we use those. And Jimmy's right. We haven't been perfect since we all got back from outward bound. We've had our moments. We all can do better.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: I can't tell you the last time I did a c four. But now we can actually stop and say something to him, and he'll go, okay, I see your point.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause I think it created that space and for everyone to be heard, and that's what a c four does, and that's what a vomp does, instead of it just turning into this one person talking or.
And I think it really taught Jimmy ownership. I don't know if you really understood what taking ownership for your actions were until you went to outward bound.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: I mean, do you think you understood what ownership was?
[00:29:39] Speaker B: No.
And it's.
I think the difference. There was also a difference in phrasing, too, is that instead of being like, I'm sorry for, you would have to. I'm say, I'd take ownership for. Yeah, I'm sorry. Because you could just say, oh, I'm sorry that I did that. I'm sorry about that. You don't actually address it. And the whole goal of the ownership is that you actually have to say, I take ownership for, and then say exactly what you did or what you did not do, and it made you vulnerable, and it made you say what you did wrong or what you could have done better.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, for me, the biggest thing was I had to trust him, and that was really hard with the addiction aspect of it, because there was so much sneaking that Jimmy was doing that for us to move forward, and it's something we're still working on, but I know that for us, and we'll get into this in the next episode. But I know, inherently, Jimmy is an amazing kid. I am so blessed to have the opportunity to be his bonus mom and to have the opportunity to come into his life. But I know that we're all going to make mistakes. I mean, we were told, man, you guys are doing this. I mean, one of the best parts about outward bound washing. We got to go into a session with Jimmy's counselors, and Jimmy shared what he needed from us. And one of the things Jimmy asked for from us was just time with us. And I have held that, like, so dear since we got back. And, like, I take Jimmy rock climbing, and now I know that he really values that. And recently, we stumbled a little bit, and I was like, dude, I don't want to take this away because that's now costing me new one on one time, and that's, like, costing us both that. And that's where I think the program was so valuable, because not only did Jimmy learn stuff, but we learned stuff as parents. And I think, you know, we're not.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: Perfect, not by a stretch.
Again, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. I don't know what's next.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's one of the coolest things about going through this experience with Jimmy, is, number one, he's been incredibly vulnerable, but we've learned a lot along the way as he's gone through, I think, an addiction that, frankly, is really difficult.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: That's a tough one.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: And I think not a lot of people talk about, especially because people are.
[00:32:30] Speaker C: On their screens all the time now.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And as we've told Jimmy, like, as we kind of look and we'll talk about it in the next episode, is it's. We want to equip him in a way that it is manageable because screens and electronics are not going to. And so we can't set him up to just put him in this bubble of no electronics or screens. But how do we put him in a space where he can manage it in a way that allows him to have a balanced life, which is what we're working towards now. So thanks for joining us on this first bonus episode.
[00:33:11] Speaker C: So, as we wrap up, we will.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Talk in our second episode with Jimmy about where you're at now, now that you've been two years out from Outward bound and where you're going in the future. So thanks for listening to this episode of modern mixtape.
[00:33:29] Speaker C: And remember, if you enjoyed this episode, like and share it on all socials and your podcast platform, whatever you use. And feel free to comment. Yeah, we're waiting for comments. Feel free. We've only had a couple of feel free to get in there and be like, you guys are crazy.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: Catch you on the next one.
[00:33:47] Speaker C: All right.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: Modern mixtape is produced and recorded by Jenny and Jim Pruden, edited and mixed by Grey Bear Erikson at the Sanctuary theme song written and performed by Grey Bear Erickson.
